virtual okno public01
moderated by elpueblodechina & yves degoyon
wednesday may 24, 2006
Matrix Art Project, Brussels/online
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 24 15:27:51 2006
May 24 15:28:08 -chevil- w:alienation
May 24 15:28:12 -wikinibot- alienation
May 24 15:28:12 -wikinibot- alienation :: disambiguate :
May 24 15:28:13 -wikinibot- title (property) | Alienist | Social alienation | Alienation effect | Anomie | Marx's theory of alienation | Normlessness
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May 24 15:28:21 -pueblo- maxpaynecheatsonly.jodi.org
May 24 15:28:22 -chevil- w:Alienist
May 24 15:28:27 -wikinibot- Alienist
May 24 15:28:28 -wikinibot- "'Alienist'" was a somewhat derogatory and now obsolete term for a psychiatrist
May 24 15:28:28 -wikinibot- or psychologist. It was given renewed attention when used in the title of the
May 24 15:28:28 -wikinibot- 1994 novel [[The Alienist]] by Caleb Carr.
May 24 15:28:35 -Batete- get lost in fusionanomaly.net/
May 24 15:28:37 -Struba- he is funny
May 24 15:29:07 -pueblo- please if you have questions we can ask at the end
May 24 15:29:35 -Batete- in kinshasa still "10060 Disconnected"
May 24 15:29:44 -pueblo- it would be nice to have interaction with the pannel, so questions, comments. etcetera, please keep them in mind
May 24 15:29:45 -Struba- can I type them
May 24 15:29:52 -Struba- noe
May 24 15:29:57 -Struba- now I mean
May 24 15:30:07 -pueblo- yes
May 24 15:30:27 -pueblo- but I will ask them when they finish the round of statements
May 24 15:30:46 -pueblo- your questions will be seen on the screen anyway
May 24 15:30:59 -Batete- Pragmatic question: please an expression of intimacy towards maya/lina/annemie
May 24 15:31:03 -chevil- Batete: what gets disconnected?
May 24 15:31:14 -chevil- and are they any filtered sites in Congo?
May 24 15:31:17 -pueblo- :)
May 24 15:31:18 -Struba- I would like to ask Dirk, although he doesn't talk about his 'easthetics" if he thinks there are certain elements in his work
May 24 15:31:30 -Batete- I quote the screen
May 24 15:31:52 -pueblo- certain aesthetics elements in his work?
May 24 15:32:22 -Struba- like interactivity for example that constitute an aesthetic for the viewer/ (or contributor?)
May 24 15:32:27 -Batete- Not that i now of
May 24 15:32:44 -Batete- chevil that was
May 24 15:33:00 -pueblo- struba: interactivity as an aesthetic element?
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May 24 15:33:54 -Struba- I think so (bu that's my opinion, -- it contributes to the way of perceiving) what does he think about this
May 24 15:34:03 -pueblo- ok
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May 24 15:35:27 -pueblo- Struba can you tell me more about yourself so I can personalise your question?
May 24 15:35:47 -Struba- I think perceiving has changed and is no longer only sensory but activates and makes you use your eyes, ears different beacause u can interact. that how I perceive
May 24 15:36:20 -pueblo- currently they are speaking of the way industralization and its processes affects our perception in daily life
May 24 15:36:35 -pueblo- in unconscious ways
May 24 15:36:41 -Struba- I am writing my master thesis on one of Jodi s works, Untitled Game. and the creating of a different aesthetics because of new ways in which the new media are perceived/used
May 24 15:36:57 -pueblo- thanks Struba
May 24 15:37:34 -Struba- I know Dirk doesn't want to comment on this. but I want to ask anyways
May 24 15:37:43 -pueblo- hehe
May 24 15:37:54 -Struba- Maybe he says something interesting. you never know
May 24 15:38:27 -Struba- I am a she;)
May 24 15:38:47 -Struba- yes
May 24 15:38:51 -Struba- Great isn't this
May 24 15:38:55 -pueblo- I will correct
May 24 15:39:33 -pueblo- tell me if you want to ask more
May 24 15:39:40 -pueblo- if your question is answered
May 24 15:39:44 -Struba- aah
May 24 15:39:49 -Struba- i am first listening
May 24 15:40:07 -Struba- if u don't mind
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May 24 15:40:16 -pueblo- no no perfect
May 24 15:40:35 -pueblo- hello sophie
May 24 15:40:55 -sophie_apo33- hello
May 24 15:41:07 -chevil- ola sophie
May 24 15:41:20 -pueblo- I think he doesn't speak about interaction
May 24 15:41:26 -sophie_apo33- is the debate starting at 4pm ?
May 24 15:41:39 -chevil- bo at 3
May 24 15:41:43 -chevil- no at 3
May 24 15:41:44 -pueblo- we are on time yes
May 24 15:41:53 -chevil- w:interaction
May 24 15:41:57 -wikinibot- interaction
May 24 15:41:58 -wikinibot- :[[63rd World Science Fiction Convention|Interaction]] is also a [[Science
May 24 15:41:58 -wikinibot- :fiction convention]] [[Rotary Interact|Interact]] is also a [[service]] club,
May 24 15:41:59 -wikinibot- :[[Rotary Interact]]
May 24 15:42:00 -wikinibot- 'Interaction' is a kind of action which occurs as two or more objects have an
May 24 15:42:00 -wikinibot- effect upon one another. The idea of a two-way effect is essential in the
May 24 15:42:01 -wikinibot- concept of interaction instead of a one-way causal effect. Combinations of many
May 24 15:42:02 -wikinibot- simple interactions can lead to surprising emergent phenomena. It has different
May 24 15:42:02 -wikinibot- tailored meanings in various sciences.
May 24 15:42:04 -pueblo- currently a debate on beauty in a digital age
May 24 15:42:19 -pueblo- w:beauty
May 24 15:42:52 -wikinibot- beauty
May 24 15:42:52 -wikinibot- -!-- NOTICE: Please don't vandalize this page by putting your sweetheart's name
May 24 15:42:53 -wikinibot- into it. ---
May 24 15:42:53 -wikinibot- ::''For other uses, see Beauty (disambiguation).
May 24 15:43:20 -chevil- w:(formal beauty)
May 24 15:43:29 -pueblo- w:aesthetics
May 24 15:43:30 -wikinibot- aesthetics
May 24 15:43:30 -wikinibot- 'Aesthetics', 'esthetics', or '√¶sthetics' is both the study of beauty and the
May 24 15:43:30 -wikinibot- properties of a system that appeal to the senses, as opposed to the content,
May 24 15:43:30 -wikinibot- structures, and utility of the system itself.
May 24 15:43:30 -wikinibot- formal beauty
May 24 15:43:30 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 15:43:41 -pueblo- w:(art beauty)
May 24 15:43:43 -wikinibot- art beauty
May 24 15:43:44 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
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May 24 15:45:08 -chevil- r:beauty
May 24 15:45:14 -wikinibot- beauty :: see also :
May 24 15:45:15 -wikinibot- Beauty (disambiguation) | morning glory | Jules Joseph Lefebvre | art | emotional | perception | life | vitality | health | fertility | happiness | Goodness and value theory | meaning | being | nature | cognition | harmony | attraction | pleasure | Self (philosophy) | religion | ignorance | Narcissus (mythology) | vanity | ideology | dogma | prejudice | ethics | human rights | commercialism | culture wars | feminism | The Beauty Myth | aesthe
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May 24 15:45:46 -chevil- w:(The Beauty Myth)
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May 24 15:45:58 -wikinibot- The Beauty Myth
May 24 15:45:59 -wikinibot- 'The Beauty Myth' is a book by Naomi Wolf, published in 1991. It examines beauty
May 24 15:45:59 -wikinibot- as a demand and as a judgement upon women. Subtitled How Images of Beauty Are
May 24 15:46:00 -wikinibot- Used Against Women, Wolf examines the role that modern conceptions of women's
May 24 15:46:00 -wikinibot- beauty impact the spheres of employment, culture, religion, sexuality, eating
May 24 15:46:01 -wikinibot- disorders, and cosmetic surgery.
May 24 15:46:27 -pueblo- Struba, are you satisfied?
May 24 15:46:30 -chevil- W:aesthetics
May 24 15:46:37 -wikinibot- aesthetics
May 24 15:46:38 -wikinibot- 'Aesthetics', 'esthetics', or '√¶sthetics' is both the study of beauty and the
May 24 15:46:38 -wikinibot- properties of a system that appeal to the senses, as opposed to the content,
May 24 15:46:39 -wikinibot- structures, and utility of the system itself.
May 24 15:46:40 -Struba- He is still talking but not really on interaction
May 24 15:46:40 -wikinibot- Aesthetics is also the domain of philosophy that ponders art and such qualities
May 24 15:46:41 -wikinibot- as beauty, sublimity, and even ugliness and dissonance. An aesthetic (also
May 24 15:46:42 -wikinibot- spelled esthetic or √¶sthetic) is the concept of a particular school of
May 24 15:46:42 -wikinibot- philosophy that appraises art, beauty, and associated concepts by certain
May 24 15:46:44 -wikinibot- standards (e.g. the aesthetic of [[minimalism]]).
May 24 15:46:46 -wikinibot- The word aesthetics was not widely used in English until the beginning of the
May 24 15:46:46 -wikinibot- 19th Century, as referenced by J. H. Bernard's 1892 translation of Immanuel
May 24 15:46:48 -wikinibot- Kant's the Critique of the Power of Judgment. The term entered the German
May 24 15:46:48 -wikinibot- lexicon with the philosopher Alexander Gottlieb Baumgarten.
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May 24 15:48:33 -pueblo- hi u-sun
May 24 15:48:38 -u-sun_- hi
May 24 15:48:43 -u-sun_- how r u
May 24 15:48:45 -pueblo- not really on interaction, no
May 24 15:48:58 -pueblo- we are fine, trying to ellaborate questions for the panelists
May 24 15:49:04 -u-sun_- oh
May 24 15:49:24 -chevil- but of course you have to watch the stream
May 24 15:49:28 -pueblo- Struba do you want me to insist? (I would love to)
May 24 15:49:35 -chevil- www.okno.be/live
May 24 15:49:41 -Struba- If esthetics can't be taken apart from perception don't you think interaction, dynamics (like the moire think)
May 24 15:49:43 -chevil- w:stream
May 24 15:49:48 -wikinibot- stream
May 24 15:49:50 -Struba- yes i want to persist if U want certainly
May 24 15:49:51 -wikinibot- A 'stream', brook, beck or creek, is a body of water with a detectable current,
May 24 15:49:51 -wikinibot- confined within a bed and banks. 'Stream' is also an umbrella term used in the
May 24 15:49:52 -wikinibot- scientific community for all flowing natural waters, regardless of size. The
May 24 15:49:52 -wikinibot- study of streams and waterways in general is known as surface [[hydrology]] and
May 24 15:49:54 -wikinibot- is important in environmental geography or environmental geology.
May 24 15:50:03 -pueblo- OK!
May 24 15:50:31 -u-sun_- i missed an hour, forgetting that i am 1 hour behind central eu
May 24 15:50:39 -pueblo- oh
May 24 15:51:03 -fantasma- now he speaks of interaction
May 24 15:51:14 -Struba- If esthetics can't be taken apart from perception don't you think interaction, dynamics (like the moire thing)navigating
May 24 15:51:37 -Struba- participating in constructing the perceived aesthetics
May 24 15:51:50 -chevil- the human browser
May 24 15:53:00 -Struba- can they repeat audience questions in the mic
May 24 15:53:08 -fantasma- ok
May 24 15:53:17 -fantasma- we missed last one
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May 24 15:55:47 -Struba- NO i donot agree! there is interaction in the work of Jodi
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May 24 16:00:59 -pueblo- i think I missed the part where you din' agree Struba
May 24 16:01:08 -Struba- what
May 24 16:01:10 -Struba- oow
May 24 16:01:59 -Struba- Guy said There is no interaction in the work of Jodi, but he was talking about Max payne I think. But there are a lot of works for instance Untitled Game, that are interactive.
May 24 16:02:29 -Struba- because the viewer constructs his perception by interacting with the work
May 24 16:02:36 -pueblo- yes
May 24 16:02:39 -chevil- w:(max payne)
May 24 16:02:43 -wikinibot- max payne
May 24 16:02:43 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 16:02:55 -Struba- max payne only cheats gallery
May 24 16:03:02 -Struba- thats the work
May 24 16:03:19 -jaume- r:interaction
May 24 16:03:23 -wikinibot- interaction :: see also :
May 24 16:03:23 -pueblo- maxpaynecheatsonly.jodi.org/
May 24 16:03:23 -wikinibot- action (philosophy) | effect | causal | Emergence | science | communication | group | organisation | nation | state | trade | migration | foreign relations | transport | feedback | machine | medicine | medication | medicine | combination | pharmacist | molecular biology | gene | protein | metabolite | molecular pathway | pharmacodynamic | pharmacokinetic | effect | pain killer | pain control | Physician | patients | monitoring | effect | adju
May 24 16:04:35 -pueblo- ok struba
May 24 16:04:38 -pueblo- for u
May 24 16:04:43 -Struba- :) yeeey
May 24 16:06:21 -pueblo- graphics and interaction?
May 24 16:06:33 -Struba- it s hard isnt it.
May 24 16:06:47 -pueblo- it seems its hard to conceptualise on this
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May 24 16:06:50 -Struba- maybe...
May 24 16:07:19 -pueblo- but he speaks further 'the inner space of a game'
May 24 16:07:43 -pueblo- w:(computer games)
May 24 16:07:57 -wikinibot- computer games
May 24 16:07:58 -wikinibot- :This article is about computer and video games. For the magazine see [[Computer
May 24 16:07:59 -wikinibot- and Video Games (magazine)]].
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May 24 16:09:31 -pueblo- w:(game art)
May 24 16:09:37 -wikinibot- game art
May 24 16:09:37 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 16:10:05 -pueblo- wwwwwwwww.jodi.org/100cc/havoc/index.html
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May 24 16:10:27 -pueblo- does it have to be art to be beautiful?(from the audience)
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May 24 16:13:04 -Struba- i think since a hundred years there has been a shift in art from beauty to conceptual.
May 24 16:13:29 -Struba- now conceptual art, i think, has another aesthetics
May 24 16:13:43 -pueblo- does that mean a shift also from physicallity?
May 24 16:13:46 -Struba- not based on image but on concept
May 24 16:13:49 -Struba- yes
May 24 16:13:55 -Struba- many times
May 24 16:14:08 -Struba- performance art, digital art
May 24 16:14:10 -Struba- etc
May 24 16:14:47 -pueblo- but other forms of physicality emerge
May 24 16:14:58 -pueblo- perhaps a conceptual physicality
May 24 16:15:10 -king_of_relou- there is since many years neither beauty neither conceptual
May 24 16:15:23 -king_of_relou- art is already dead indeed
May 24 16:15:28 -Struba- and now new elements are important in a work of art, not the construction of visual elements perse. but also as i said (in digital art but also in performance like E.A.T. and Fluxus) interactions
May 24 16:15:49 -king_of_relou- could we say : creation?
May 24 16:15:56 -pueblo- but I still think concepts are very stucked with visual perception
May 24 16:16:00 -king_of_relou- art refer to elite
May 24 16:16:18 -king_of_relou- art refer to built culture
May 24 16:16:26 -king_of_relou- occidental built culture
May 24 16:16:27 -pueblo- and not really with other senses like proprioceptive senses
May 24 16:16:41 -Struba- yes but not in the way it is usually (traditionally) constructed
May 24 16:16:43 -king_of_relou- it's an ideological term
May 24 16:16:58 -pueblo- w:Proprioception
May 24 16:17:02 -wikinibot- Proprioception
May 24 16:17:02 -wikinibot- 'Proprioception' (from Latin proprius, meaning "one's own" and perception) is
May 24 16:17:03 -wikinibot- the sense of the position of parts of the body, relative to other neighbouring
May 24 16:17:04 -wikinibot- parts of the body. Unlike the six exteroception human senses of sight, taste,
May 24 16:17:04 -wikinibot- smell, touch, hearing, and balance, that advise us of the outside world,
May 24 16:17:05 -wikinibot- proprioception is a sense that provides feedback solely on the status of the
May 24 16:17:05 -wikinibot- body internally. It is the sense that indicates whether your body is moving with
May 24 16:17:06 -wikinibot- required effort, as well as where the various parts of the body are located in
May 24 16:17:06 -wikinibot- relation to each other.
May 24 16:17:07 -king_of_relou- used by museum & colonialist of the 1_e century
May 24 16:17:21 -king_of_relou- art is by essence colonialist
May 24 16:17:33 -king_of_relou- 18e century
May 24 16:17:42 -sophie_apo33- I think ART is a prison, and the new modes of production reveal it even more : it was produced as a social category at the beginning of the Renaissance... The question would be : what is interesting in art to be kept. According to me it the idea of "liberation of sensitivity"...
May 24 16:17:59 -pueblo- I agree completelly but still the discussion on interaction and aesthetics is interesting I think
May 24 16:18:29 -king_of_relou- to what refer aesthetic then?
May 24 16:18:41 -king_of_relou- interaction is very vague term
May 24 16:18:46 -Struba- yes.
May 24 16:18:46 -pueblo- to politics for example
May 24 16:18:52 -king_of_relou- ...inter-action
May 24 16:19:02 -pueblo- but if we speak of interaction we speak also of interfaces
May 24 16:19:05 -king_of_relou- is the inter which is interesting
May 24 16:19:09 -pueblo- and about interacting subjects
May 24 16:19:22 -king_of_relou- and so what?
May 24 16:19:40 -Struba- i agree it is very vague. but in digital art I use in a way tha the viewer can construct an experience
May 24 16:19:41 -king_of_relou- interfaces & subjects... then?
May 24 16:19:48 -Struba- and therefore construct his own meaning
May 24 16:20:01 -pueblo- that perhaps to speak about ART is limitating but if we see these aspect of digital practice, media practice
May 24 16:20:07 -king_of_relou- but still in science experimentation term
May 24 16:20:16 -king_of_relou- we test the subject
May 24 16:20:19 -pueblo- if we try to understand them perhaps we can see much more than art
May 24 16:20:24 -king_of_relou- how it will interact with an object
May 24 16:20:38 -king_of_relou- who is them?
May 24 16:20:55 -pueblo- i mean more subject in terms of social subjectivity
May 24 16:20:59 -pueblo- something shared
May 24 16:21:07 -king_of_relou- don't you think interaction is now a clich√© of digital art...?
May 24 16:21:23 -king_of_relou- a pot pourri!
May 24 16:21:29 -pueblo- I think is something that still has to be discussed
May 24 16:21:37 -king_of_relou- well...
May 24 16:21:37 -pueblo- because is not solved
May 24 16:21:40 -pueblo- in games
May 24 16:21:47 -sophie_apo33- There is maybe a contradiction between aesthetics and inter-action : the second one refers to an active "subject" related to a situation and other "subjects" while the the concept of aesthetics refers to contemplation... Developping interaction means going out of aesthetics and entering a regime of production of practice...
May 24 16:21:54 -Struba- I thin interaction in itself constructs so many possibilities it seems to be a shame to say it is a cliche
May 24 16:22:24 -pueblo- but aesthetics can be seen from another point of view
May 24 16:22:33 -pueblo- from our computer based practices
May 24 16:22:34 -king_of_relou- as said clich√© in digital art
May 24 16:22:48 -pueblo- so far from contemplation
May 24 16:23:00 -king_of_relou- inter-action is not clich√© in street action for exemple
May 24 16:23:03 -pueblo- :)
May 24 16:23:26 -pueblo- but dont you think we have developed very little on this subject?
May 24 16:23:32 -king_of_relou- could explain aesthetic in hackers practices then?
May 24 16:24:05 -Struba- I see what you mean with aesthetics being a contradiction but I dont agree completely yet
May 24 16:24:06 -pueblo- sure, runme.org/
May 24 16:24:22 -pueblo- aesthetics and hacker practices I meant
May 24 16:24:31 -chevil- the aesthetics of our anger
May 24 16:24:40 -Struba- I think it is not completely different things now
May 24 16:24:58 -sophie_apo33- when we speak about our practice we never speak about easthetics, but more about "poietic", which refers to the production of forms through technique and to the practice of the production
May 24 16:25:13 -chevil- the power of your oppression is the aesthetics of our anger, full version
May 24 16:25:41 -pueblo- nice, thanks sophie, guy is speaking about this now
May 24 16:25:50 -pueblo- w:poetics
May 24 16:25:54 -wikinibot- poetics
May 24 16:25:55 -wikinibot- Aristotle's 'Poetics' aims to give an account of poetry. Aristotle does this by
May 24 16:25:55 -wikinibot- attempting to explain poetry through first principles (1447a13), and by
May 24 16:25:56 -wikinibot- classifying poetry into its different genres and component parts. The
May 24 16:25:56 -wikinibot- centerpiece of Aristotle's surviving work is his examination of tragedy. This
May 24 16:25:57 -wikinibot- occurs in Chapter 6 of "Poetics:"
May 24 16:25:58 -wikinibot- :"Tragedy, then, is an imitation of an action that is serious, complete, and of
May 24 16:25:58 -wikinibot- :a certain magnitude; in language embellished with each kind of artistic
May 24 16:26:00 -wikinibot- :ornament, the several kinds being found in separate parts of the play; in the
May 24 16:26:00 -wikinibot- :form of action, not of narrative; through pity and fear effecting the proper
May 24 16:26:02 -wikinibot- :purgation of these emotions." (1449b24-29, SH Butcher transl.)
May 24 16:26:04 -wikinibot- He goes on to define the major characteristics of Greek dramatic structure.
May 24 16:26:09 -king_of_relou- w:poietic
May 24 16:26:18 -wikinibot- poietic
May 24 16:26:18 -wikinibot- 'Esthesic' (UK aesthesic) and 'poietic' are terms used in semiotics, the study
May 24 16:26:19 -wikinibot- of signs, to describe perceptive and productive levels, processes, and analyses
May 24 16:26:19 -wikinibot- of symbolic forms.
May 24 16:26:41 -pueblo- ah ok, guy was talking about poetics
May 24 16:27:15 -king_of_relou- poietic not poetics
May 24 16:27:21 -sophie_apo33- Actually, I don't refer directly to the linguistic tradition of definition of poietic, nether to Aristotle, but more to the use that Certeau makes of it in his book "the invention of eveyday life"
May 24 16:27:24 -king_of_relou- is not the same concet actually
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May 24 16:28:09 -pueblo- we didnt have more time for questions
May 24 16:28:11 -pueblo- mm
May 24 16:28:37 -king_of_relou- what's the point with the chat inter-action.?
May 24 16:28:39 -pueblo- no is not at all
May 24 16:28:49 -pueblo- we made some questions dear
May 24 16:28:56 -king_of_relou- mmm
May 24 16:28:58 -pueblo- but then everybody was
May 24 16:29:05 -pueblo- doing it at the same time
May 24 16:29:29 -pueblo- but this is projected on the scree
May 24 16:29:37 -king_of_relou- remind me the subject...then?
May 24 16:30:07 -king_of_relou- interaction & aesthetic?
May 24 16:30:55 -pueblo- Sophie, can you expand a bit more on De Certau and poietic?
May 24 16:31:37 -pueblo- ok the subject was beauty in the age of digital art
May 24 16:31:46 -pueblo- www.okno.be/?id=815
May 24 16:31:48 -king_of_relou- beauty in the age of digital art
May 24 16:31:51 -king_of_relou- yes right
May 24 16:32:04 -pueblo- And soon we will start on Transdisciplinary Practices
May 24 16:32:17 -u-sun_- where is the venue
May 24 16:32:24 -pueblo- we are all at okno
May 24 16:32:31 -pueblo- have you been here u-soon?
May 24 16:32:40 -u-sun_- u-sun
May 24 16:32:46 -u-sun_- noo
May 24 16:33:03 -u-sun_- oh i see u in the vid
May 24 16:33:06 -pueblo- oops typing english as I speak spanish
May 24 16:33:07 -sophie_apo33- he speaks about poetic to qualify the tactical practices developed in everyday life against the proliferation of disciplinary micro-techniques of power (Foucault) : poetics is in a way hijacking and playing the the micro-techniques of power
May 24 16:33:39 -pueblo- ok but then it is the concept of poetics
May 24 16:33:45 -king_of_relou- question : beauty from which point of view?
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May 24 16:34:00 -pueblo- I think in this pannel from media art related practices
May 24 16:34:51 -pueblo- so, games, net-art, performance, sound art, interactive forms etc
May 24 16:35:02 -king_of_relou- yes from the panel... but the concept of beauty is a general term to named our sensibility.?
May 24 16:35:11 -king_of_relou- sensibilty reception
May 24 16:35:36 -king_of_relou- from human senses to psycho-interpretation
May 24 16:36:46 -pueblo- well like Struba mentioned perception entangled with aestheticcs
May 24 16:36:48 -king_of_relou- what about beauty in factory workers
May 24 16:36:50 -king_of_relou- ?.??
May 24 16:37:09 -king_of_relou- or office secretary?
May 24 16:37:18 -pueblo- totally
May 24 16:37:34 -pueblo- Constant (Peter) says hi apo33
May 24 16:37:55 -king_of_relou- what do you think of the beauty of cars?
May 24 16:37:58 -king_of_relou- Hi peter!!!
May 24 16:38:15 -king_of_relou- cars is beautiful from a certain point of view
May 24 16:38:32 -king_of_relou- but it's destroy our world...
May 24 16:38:44 -king_of_relou- the masses of cars mecanics
May 24 16:38:44 -king_of_relou- !!
May 24 16:38:59 -Struba- I am leaving now
May 24 16:39:13 -pueblo- thanks Struba
May 24 16:39:14 -Struba- I liked this thing very much
May 24 16:39:17 -Struba- thank you
May 24 16:39:21 -king_of_relou- thanks
May 24 16:39:24 -pueblo- it was very good to have u here
May 24 16:39:27 -Struba- Say hi and thank to Dirk;)
May 24 16:39:50 --- Struba has quit ()
May 24 16:39:53 -chevil- w:pragmatic
May 24 16:40:02 -wikinibot- pragmatic
May 24 16:40:05 -wikinibot- 'Pragmatism', as a school of philosophy, is a collection of many different ways
May 24 16:40:06 -wikinibot- of thinking. Given the diversity among thinkers and the variety among schools of
May 24 16:40:06 -wikinibot- thought that have adopted this term over the years, the term pragmatism has
May 24 16:40:08 -wikinibot- become all but meaningless in the absence of further qualification. Most of the
May 24 16:40:08 -wikinibot- thinkers who describe themselves as pragmatists point to some connection with
May 24 16:40:08 -king_of_relou- w:death
May 24 16:40:10 -wikinibot- practical consequences or real effects as vital components of both meaning and
May 24 16:40:10 -wikinibot- truth. The precise character of these links to [[pragma]]ta is however as
May 24 16:40:12 -wikinibot- diverse as the thinkers who do the pointing.
May 24 16:40:16 -wikinibot- death
May 24 16:40:17 -wikinibot- :-span class="dablink"-For other uses, see [[Death (disambiguation)]] or [[Dead
May 24 16:40:18 -wikinibot- :(disambiguation)]].
May 24 16:40:49 -king_of_relou- meaning and
May 24 16:40:49 -king_of_relou- truth
May 24 16:41:14 -king_of_relou- still to find the point of view and interpretation
May 24 16:41:26 -muna- what do you think about the discussion that just finished? something new?
May 24 16:41:31 -king_of_relou- aesthetics is interpretation...
May 24 16:42:05 -muna- as everything is, isn't it?
May 24 16:42:21 -king_of_relou- can't have acces to the stream... qtime proprio...
May 24 16:42:21 -muna- pitty
May 24 16:42:21 -king_of_relou- yes...
May 24 16:42:21 -king_of_relou- :-(
May 24 16:42:24 -pueblo- well its not over
May 24 16:43:08 -king_of_relou- I have to configure the machine to receive this... don't have the time to do it...
May 24 16:43:08 -muna- not yet:)
May 24 16:43:08 -pueblo- I was just speaking to Nina Czegledy
May 24 16:43:15 -muna- and?
May 24 16:43:15 --- xname (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 16:43:19 -pueblo- she was also expecting a broader concept of beauty
May 24 16:43:33 -pueblo- hi xname
May 24 16:44:03 -muna- in what sense broarder? there are so many concetps of beauty.. perhaps more up to date now?
May 24 16:44:26 -pueblo- well they were mainly focusing and digital/visual arts I think
May 24 16:44:48 -pueblo- so narrow in the cognitive sense, only focusing on some senses
May 24 16:45:06 -pueblo- and as apo33 commented, beauty in a kind of elite space
May 24 16:45:13 -pueblo- of media art
May 24 16:45:16 -chevil- hey relou! try mpeg4ip
May 24 16:45:17 -muna- but emotions and pleasure and will were mentioned later on as well
May 24 16:45:20 -chevil- hey relou! try mpeg4ip for the stream
May 24 16:45:32 -pueblo- pleasure yes and networks
May 24 16:46:09 -pueblo- what would be more up to date muna?
May 24 16:46:31 -muna- good question:)
May 24 16:46:46 -pueblo- what would you find more up to date?
May 24 16:46:57 -muna- there are all these words that you see in all this media theory texts..
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May 24 16:47:35 -pueblo- well sophie brought an interesting path
May 24 16:47:36 -pueblo- sophie_apo33: he speaks about poetic to qualify the tactical practices developed in everyday life against the proliferation of disciplinary micro-techniques of power (Foucault) : poetics is in a way hijacking and playing the the micro-techniques of power
May 24 16:47:54 -pueblo- speaking of Michel de Certau's poetic
May 24 16:48:28 --- xname has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
May 24 16:48:45 -muna- what is the relation between poetics and esthetics?
May 24 16:49:26 -pueblo- thats broad
May 24 16:49:26 --- okno-090 has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
May 24 16:49:50 -pueblo- I think I cannot give a quick answer :s
May 24 16:50:10 -pueblo- w:poetics
May 24 16:50:14 -wikinibot- poetics
May 24 16:50:15 -wikinibot- Aristotle's 'Poetics' aims to give an account of poetry. Aristotle does this by
May 24 16:50:15 -wikinibot- attempting to explain poetry through first principles (1447a13), and by
May 24 16:50:16 -wikinibot- classifying poetry into its different genres and component parts. The
May 24 16:50:16 -wikinibot- centerpiece of Aristotle's surviving work is his examination of tragedy. This
May 24 16:50:17 -wikinibot- occurs in Chapter 6 of "Poetics:"
May 24 16:50:18 -wikinibot- :"Tragedy, then, is an imitation of an action that is serious, complete, and of
May 24 16:50:18 -wikinibot- :a certain magnitude; in language embellished with each kind of artistic
May 24 16:50:20 -wikinibot- :ornament, the several kinds being found in separate parts of the play; in the
May 24 16:50:20 -wikinibot- :form of action, not of narrative; through pity and fear effecting the proper
May 24 16:50:22 -wikinibot- :purgation of these emotions." (1449b24-29, SH Butcher transl.)
May 24 16:50:24 -wikinibot- He goes on to define the major characteristics of Greek dramatic structure.
May 24 16:50:25 -king_of_relou- I need to compile it
May 24 16:51:04 -pueblo- but then in De Certau's sense, poetics is in a way hijacking and playing the the micro-techniques of power
May 24 16:51:38 -pueblo- w:aesthetics
May 24 16:51:38 -wikinibot- aesthetics
May 24 16:51:38 -wikinibot- 'Aesthetics', 'esthetics', or '√¶sthetics' is both the study of beauty and the
May 24 16:51:38 -wikinibot- properties of a system that appeal to the senses, as opposed to the content,
May 24 16:51:38 -wikinibot- structures, and utility of the system itself.
May 24 16:52:14 -king_of_relou- can't remember the stream adrrees??
May 24 16:52:28 -pueblo- can we ellaborate an answer from these definitions, mm
May 24 16:52:50 --- hik has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
May 24 16:52:56 -chevil- qt.okno.be:8000/okno.sdp
May 24 16:53:34 -pueblo- properties of a system that appeal to the senses
May 24 16:53:34 -sophie_apo33- the difference between aesthetics and poectics is that the second one puts the accent on the dimension of the production and of the tools used, it comes from "poeisis" in greek, which means "production" : what is interesting in this concept is taht it points out the "technical "dimension, while the aesthetics approch is more focused on the result and not on the process of production
May 24 16:55:49 -pueblo- ok I need to think, was speaking a bit with annemie and guy de bievre
May 24 16:56:17 -pueblo- and i have an old processor
May 24 16:57:06 -pueblo- ok thats why we speak of poetics of networks for example?
May 24 16:57:50 -pueblo- although I find that as very related to the poetics of power
May 24 16:58:01 -pueblo- poetics of networks, poetics of power
May 24 16:58:03 --- okno-075 (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 16:58:47 -sophie_apo33- I think the concept of art is part of a framework which presupposes the Subject as A producer or as A spectator. The digital devices belong to a new framework which I think one of the important element is DIGITAL : transforming reality into numbers, into code. In this framework the focus is not on the "image" resulting but on this process of transformation of realit into code : the consequence of this change are, I think, very imp
May 24 16:58:47 -sophie_apo33- ortant regarding a redefinition of artistic practices, and the category of art itself
May 24 16:59:31 -pueblo- I will try to find a moment to connect all this to the discussion here
May 24 16:59:59 -pueblo- and I think there will be room for speaking about this in the next pannel stating in a few minutes
May 24 17:00:19 -pueblo- next pannel will be on Transdisciplinary practices
May 24 17:00:52 -pueblo- www.okno.be/?id=816
May 24 17:01:11 --- okno-068 (email@example.com) has joined #okno
May 24 17:01:46 --- okno-068 (firstname.lastname@example.org) has left #okno
May 24 17:02:24 -pueblo- we start again
May 24 17:03:13 --- okno-090 (email@example.com) has joined #okno
May 24 17:03:39 -okno-090- ihh
May 24 17:03:47 -king_of_relou- SDP decode failure -11
May 24 17:03:48 --- muna has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
May 24 17:04:03 -king_of_relou- my_player-3: Invalid SDP file
May 24 17:04:03 -pueblo- hello okno-090
May 24 17:04:08 -okno-090- gggggg
May 24 17:04:10 -king_of_relou- sync changed state Init to Exi
May 24 17:04:22 -king_of_relou- chevil... mpeg4ip
May 24 17:04:36 -king_of_relou- got it but ... error... invalid sdp file
May 24 17:04:36 --- okno-090 has quit (Client Quit)
May 24 17:04:38 -king_of_relou- .....
May 24 17:04:42 -chevil- ya i dunno i don't use it
May 24 17:04:52 -king_of_relou- ahaha tout √† fait toi √ßa!!!
May 24 17:04:53 -chevil- but in a private please
May 24 17:05:09 -king_of_relou- ;-) scusi lami
May 24 17:05:12 --- okno-069 (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 17:06:15 -pueblo- w:transdiciplinarity
May 24 17:06:17 -wikinibot- transdiciplinarity
May 24 17:06:18 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 17:06:26 -pueblo- w:transdisciplinarity
May 24 17:06:30 -wikinibot- transdisciplinarity
May 24 17:06:31 -wikinibot- 'Transdisciplinarity' is a principle of scientific research that describes the
May 24 17:06:31 -wikinibot- application of scientific approaches to problems that transcend the boundaries
May 24 17:06:32 -wikinibot- of conventional academic disciplines. Such phenomena, such as the environment,
May 24 17:06:32 -wikinibot- energy, and health, are referred to as 'transdisciplinary'.
May 24 17:07:13 -pueblo- they want to relate transdisciplinarity to the use of networks
May 24 17:07:17 -pueblo- as well
May 24 17:07:38 -pueblo- now Femke Snelting (constant) speaking
May 24 17:07:48 -king_of_relou- say hello to femke!!!!
May 24 17:07:49 --- hik (email@example.com) has joined #okno
May 24 17:08:10 -king_of_relou- are you sure the stream is working???
May 24 17:08:12 -pueblo- :) oui oui
May 24 17:08:31 -pueblo- are you receiving the stream?
May 24 17:08:36 -king_of_relou- I had test mplayer, vlc, xine, mpeg4ip
May 24 17:08:38 --- psi36 (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 17:08:51 -pueblo- hi psi36
May 24 17:08:54 -king_of_relou- they said they can't find the stream
May 24 17:09:10 -king_of_relou- when I go here qt.okno.be:8000
May 24 17:09:15 --- mostrobcn (email@example.com) has joined #okno
May 24 17:09:15 -king_of_relou- server is closed!!
May 24 17:09:16 -pueblo- we are checking, just a sec
May 24 17:09:45 -pueblo- hello mostrobcn
May 24 17:09:46 -king_of_relou- Connection: Close
May 24 17:09:50 --- muna (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 17:09:58 -pueblo- one sec king
May 24 17:10:30 -king_of_relou- ok miss
May 24 17:10:37 -psi36- hello everyone
May 24 17:10:37 --- hik has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
May 24 17:10:40 -chevil- emperor
May 24 17:10:52 -pueblo- now it should work again
May 24 17:10:59 -pueblo- the stream
May 24 17:11:04 --- okno-075 has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
May 24 17:11:11 --- hik (email@example.com) has joined #okno
May 24 17:11:19 -pueblo- hi psi36, where are you connected from?
May 24 17:11:25 --- anniea (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 17:11:36 -pueblo- hello anniea
May 24 17:11:36 -hik- stream is back
May 24 17:11:57 -king_of_relou- mmm
May 24 17:12:33 -pueblo- you get it?
May 24 17:12:33 -psi36- i am at home in brussels
May 24 17:12:34 -king_of_relou- my_player-3: Invalid SDP file
May 24 17:12:49 -king_of_relou- server still close
May 24 17:12:51 --- mostrobcn has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
May 24 17:12:52 -pueblo- ok thanks psi36 are u getting the stream?
May 24 17:13:08 -anniea- hello , I have the stream again
May 24 17:13:09 -king_of_relou- qt.okno.be:8000
May 24 17:13:10 -psi36- now i do
May 24 17:13:14 -hik- stream has dropped, but shoold be back on
May 24 17:13:16 --- mostrobcn (email@example.com) has joined #okno
May 24 17:13:28 -psi36- first it was a still but now its moving image
May 24 17:15:09 --- skab (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 17:15:16 -pueblo- hi skab
May 24 17:15:22 -skab- ahoj
May 24 17:15:41 -pueblo- where are you connecting from?
May 24 17:15:46 -skab- is the videostream working with you?
May 24 17:15:52 -skab- oh - i'm connecting from home - hihi
May 24 17:15:55 -pueblo- for some yes
May 24 17:16:04 -skab- i don't get it running here
May 24 17:16:11 -mostrobcn- ok for me
May 24 17:16:17 -pueblo- home=brussels?
May 24 17:16:25 -skab- nje -- home=bratislava
May 24 17:16:31 -pueblo- aha!
May 24 17:16:36 -anniea- home= montpellier
May 24 17:17:07 -skab- does anyone use linux and can see the stream?
May 24 17:17:25 -psi36- im using win XP now
May 24 17:17:32 -psi36- i could check on linux
May 24 17:17:40 -pueblo- hum I think king of relou is using linux
May 24 17:17:45 -chevil- for linux, you can try mpeg4ip, but poor results
May 24 17:17:46 --- jaume (~email@example.com) has joined #okno
May 24 17:18:01 -pueblo- hello jaume
May 24 17:18:22 -chevil- w:(low tech)
May 24 17:18:25 -wikinibot- low tech
May 24 17:18:25 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 17:18:34 -chevil- w:lowtech
May 24 17:18:45 -wikinibot- lowtech
May 24 17:18:45 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 17:18:48 -pueblo- w:(old media)
May 24 17:18:50 -wikinibot- old media
May 24 17:18:51 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 17:19:01 -chevil- w:(low technology)
May 24 17:19:04 -wikinibot- low technology
May 24 17:19:04 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 17:19:23 -king_of_relou- not working on mp4player
May 24 17:19:30 -chevil- w:(high tech)
May 24 17:19:33 -king_of_relou- how you enter it in it
May 24 17:19:34 -king_of_relou- ???
May 24 17:19:35 -wikinibot- high tech
May 24 17:19:35 -wikinibot- 'High tech' refers to tech that is at the cutting-edge - the most high tech
May 24 17:19:36 -wikinibot- currently available. The noun form is hyphenated: 'high-tech' or 'high-
May 24 17:19:36 -wikinibot- technology'. There is also a style of architect known as "High Tech."
May 24 17:19:37 -wikinibot- There is no specific class of technology that is high-tech - the definition
May 24 17:19:38 -wikinibot- shifts over time - so products hyped as high-tech in the 1960s would now be
May 24 17:19:38 -wikinibot- considered, if not exactly low tech, then at least somewhat primitive. This
May 24 17:19:39 -wikinibot- fuzzy definition has led to marketing departments describing nearly all new
May 24 17:19:40 -king_of_relou- w:stop
May 24 17:19:40 -wikinibot- products as high-tech.
May 24 17:19:43 -wikinibot- stop
May 24 17:19:43 -wikinibot- stop :: disambiguate :
May 24 17:19:44 -wikinibot- English language | Organ stop | Stop consonant | Aperture | f-stop | Exposure (photography) | Squark | Full stop | muzzle (animal) | forehead | Blue Screen of Death | Stop (Pink Floyd song) | Franco De Vita | Stop (Spice Girls song) | Bus stop | tram stop | Door stop | Stop sign | Terry v. Ohio | Truck stop
May 24 17:20:09 -chevil- w:(Blue Screen of Death)
May 24 17:20:15 -wikinibot- Blue Screen of Death
May 24 17:20:17 -wikinibot- that has failed and is displaying the Blue Screen of Death.]] The 'Blue Screen
May 24 17:20:17 -wikinibot- of Death' (sometimes called "bluescreen", "stop error" or just "BSoD") is a
May 24 17:20:18 -wikinibot- popular name for the screen displayed by Microsoft's Windows operating system
May 24 17:20:18 -wikinibot- when it cannot or is in danger of being unable to recover from a system error.
May 24 17:20:32 -pueblo- how does technology enable transdisciplinary practices? question from Elke
May 24 17:20:45 -king_of_relou- skab: I am struggling with the stream
May 24 17:21:08 -king_of_relou- vlc, xine, mplayer, mp4player... none of them can't open
May 24 17:21:14 -king_of_relou- I have an idea...wait
May 24 17:21:18 -skab- have the same problem
May 24 17:21:27 -skab- i have the mplayer-plugin for firefox
May 24 17:21:29 -chevil- some ffmpeg do
May 24 17:21:58 -king_of_relou- bof... gonna try helixplayer
May 24 17:22:14 -pueblo- does software shape the way to think these practices (another question form Elke to Femke)
May 24 17:22:51 -pueblo- femke speaks about science fiction
May 24 17:22:53 -king_of_relou- don't work with helixplayer...:-(
May 24 17:23:00 -skab- thought so
May 24 17:23:18 -skab- i'm not very good with videos so i don't know how to use ffmpeg.....??
May 24 17:25:29 --- king_of_relou has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
May 24 17:26:24 -pueblo- sophie we are trying to bring your comments in
May 24 17:26:51 --- skab (firstname.lastname@example.org) has left #okno
May 24 17:27:36 -sophie_apo33- to answer to Elke : first of all, technology, digital technology is more and more used for any kind of practice today, so from this point of view we have a kind of huge machinery of interconnected machines which end up working on many different fields, many different spaces at the same time. For this, because the digital technology is "penetrating" the totality of reality, it not only enables transdisciplinary practices but forces
May 24 17:27:36 -sophie_apo33- practices to become transdiciplinary
May 24 17:28:28 -pueblo- thnks sophie
May 24 17:28:38 -pueblo- I will bring this in
May 24 17:30:29 -pueblo- heindrik will try to fix this problem for linux users after this pannel
May 24 17:31:31 -chevil- the official tool to get streamtime streams on linux is mpeg4ip
May 24 17:31:38 -chevil- but it works very badly
May 24 17:32:45 -sophie_apo33- so maybe what is interesting to understand is : in what sense do the "disciplinary practices" become "trans", in which way the boudaries that make them different are put in question be technology, in particular digital tecnology ?
May 24 17:32:55 --- destitution0Vme (email@example.com) has joined #okno
May 24 17:33:14 -pueblo- hello destitution0V
May 24 17:33:53 --- jottavi (~firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 17:33:53 --- destitution0Vme has quit (Client Quit)
May 24 17:34:38 -jottavi- mmm
May 24 17:34:38 -pueblo- any progress jottavi?
May 24 17:34:55 -pueblo- now Christophe De Boeck (audiostore) speaking
May 24 17:35:14 --- anniea (email@example.com) has left #okno
May 24 17:35:19 --- jaume has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
May 24 17:35:21 -sophie_apo33- from my point of view it is not only the relation and differences between the disciplines which is shifting but before this, the relation between discourse and practice, knowledge and practice, and the social inscription of knoweledge and what we call "artistic practices"
May 24 17:35:21 -jottavi- still struggling....
May 24 17:36:47 -pueblo- they will try icecast streaming for the next pannels
May 24 17:36:58 -pueblo- can't you use quicktime player only for today?
May 24 17:37:03 -jottavi- unfortunetly we need for now as sophie following the stuff...
May 24 17:37:17 -jottavi- I only have linux everywhere here
May 24 17:37:38 -pueblo- I know is very important, is a pitty you can't follow it
May 24 17:38:04 -jottavi- 50 machines under linux
May 24 17:38:06 -jottavi- !
May 24 17:38:13 -sophie_apo33- so technology (as tools) is just the "visible" dimension of a more general changing in what Foucault calls "technology of power"
May 24 17:38:47 -pueblo- yes thats what I meant by bringing in the realtion between networks and power
May 24 17:41:08 -sophie_apo33- networks : you can understand it in the sense of network practices which refers to new ways of relating and organizing in human relations, or in the sense of networking tools . The question of power lies between the 2...
May 24 17:41:42 --- xgz (~firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 17:42:51 -pueblo- hi xgz
May 24 17:43:20 -xgz- ah _ escaping the masses/madness
May 24 17:43:52 -pueblo- so tell me xgz, you were speaking about networks, do you also see the relation between them and power
May 24 17:44:33 -xgz- sure _ wanted to comment on it because these are very aesthetical moments when you see how power acts and when you are trying to go against it
May 24 17:44:58 -xgz- and the good thing is that you don't have to leave the field of technological arts for it hihi
May 24 17:45:53 -pueblo- now Eric Georges (R√©seau Citoyen) formulating a question to Audiostore
May 24 17:46:40 -pueblo- xgz:but don't you think technological arts also beautify power relations?
May 24 17:47:18 --- hik has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
May 24 17:47:38 -xgz- sure and they are just a justification for a lot of old things in a new dress, but the idea is to set up an alternative set of networks with distributed action to dismantle it from the bottom up
May 24 17:48:16 -pueblo- what do you think about this sophie?
May 24 17:48:26 --- hik (email@example.com) has joined #okno
May 24 17:48:29 -xgz- about the presentation: but do they really criticize 'spaces' or do they just take technology as a "prop" and so leave the traditional unity of time and space unaffected
May 24 17:49:41 -chevil- the mirror : gollumlab.dyndns.org/piespy/images/okno/okno-current.png
May 24 17:50:13 -xgz- can a system like reseau citoyen dismantle traditional performance and distribute it over several spaces and time units, even unsynchronized?
May 24 17:50:13 --- timv (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 17:50:13 -chevil- they say social network here
May 24 17:50:32 -xgz- yeah but that term is too broad for me
May 24 17:50:32 -chevil- w:(social network)
May 24 17:50:39 -xgz- social in what sense?
May 24 17:50:46 -wikinibot- social network
May 24 17:50:46 -wikinibot- A 'social network' is a social structure made of nodes which are generally
May 24 17:50:47 -wikinibot- individuals or organizations. It indicates the ways in which they are connected
May 24 17:50:47 -wikinibot- through various social familiarities ranging from casual acquaintance to close
May 24 17:50:48 -wikinibot- familial bonds. The term was first coined in 1954 by J. A. Barnes (in: Class and
May 24 17:50:48 -wikinibot- Committees in a Norwegian Island Parish, "Human Relations"). The maximum size of
May 24 17:50:49 -wikinibot- social networks tends to be around 150 people and the average size around 124
May 24 17:50:49 -wikinibot- (Hill and Dunbar, 2002).
May 24 17:51:10 -xgz- fuck sigarette brands, even from 2002
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May 24 17:51:33 -chevil- 124!
May 24 17:51:35 -chevil- 23!
May 24 17:51:43 -chevil- magic numbers
May 24 17:51:59 -xgz- 352 when you add them improperly
May 24 17:52:36 -xgz- 55
May 24 17:52:38 -xgz- 1
May 24 17:52:47 -pueblo- I think space and time are also bent by power structures
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May 24 17:53:15 -xgz- but the presenters don't leave the traditional aesthetics of the theater
May 24 17:53:29 -chevil- and by solar radiations anyway
May 24 17:53:33 -pueblo- Don't know if there s a way to develop these units
May 24 17:53:56 -pueblo- not in the traditional aesthetics of the theater for sure
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May 24 17:54:24 -xgz- damn theatre is quite a conformist business in this area (not by the presenter I don't mean this personally)
May 24 17:55:10 -pueblo- now eric is asking if the use of networks may affect performance
May 24 17:55:18 -pueblo- in what way
May 24 17:55:29 -chevil- www.netpd.org
May 24 17:55:34 -xgz- come on _ mortuarium on talking about brands
May 24 17:55:53 -pueblo- and he speaks of performativity of spaces
May 24 17:56:00 -xgz- cigerettes can kill you
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May 24 17:56:09 -chevil- cars too
May 24 17:56:30 -xgz- so let's smoke in the theatre and leave the car running inside the space
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May 24 17:59:08 -xgz- ah damn stream out
May 24 17:59:41 -pueblo- ok performativity to you xgz
May 24 17:59:44 -chevil- stream in/stream out
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May 24 17:59:51 -pueblo- and networks, can we develop space and time units
May 24 18:00:04 -xgz- ok back _ missed the last point but hearing the answers ok
May 24 18:00:14 -chevil- w:(day in, day out)
May 24 18:00:17 -wikinibot- day in, day out
May 24 18:00:18 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 18:01:01 -pueblo- I have also posed all of sophie's comments and questions, I think Femke will answer to this later
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May 24 18:06:16 -xgz- maybe about sound and body: is love frequency dependent?
May 24 18:06:39 -pueblo- absolutelly
May 24 18:07:12 -xgz- damn _ ok disappearing and starting to patch up something effective then
May 24 18:07:14 -xgz- bye
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May 24 18:07:48 -pueblo- I lost the last part
May 24 18:07:54 -pueblo- I fell down
May 24 18:08:13 -pueblo- Eric Georges (R√©seau Citoyen)currently speaking
May 24 18:08:36 -pueblo- open networks as a political statement
May 24 18:09:10 -chevil- open politics as a network statement
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May 24 18:14:00 -pueblo- jottavi and sophie apo33: do you also work with open networks?
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May 24 18:14:24 -pueblo- hi annemie
May 24 18:14:32 -annemie- hi alej
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May 24 18:16:26 -pueblo- w:wiki
May 24 18:16:26 -sophie_apo33- what do you mean by "open networks"
May 24 18:16:26 -wikinibot- wiki
May 24 18:16:26 -wikinibot- wiki :: disambiguate :
May 24 18:16:26 -wikinibot- International Phonetic Alphabet for English | website | collaborative writing | collaborative software | WikiWikiWeb | Wikipedia | Hawaii | Hawaiian language | adjective | adverb | HTML | Internet forum | WikiWikiWeb | Chance RT-52 | Honolulu International Airport | Hawaii | Ward Cunningham | Portland Pattern Repository | backronym | markup (computing) | web browser | hyperlink | database | asterisk | Bullet (typography) | human-readable | Ja
May 24 18:16:36 -pueblo- wireless open ineternet networks
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May 24 18:16:56 -pueblo- w:WikiWikiWeb
May 24 18:17:00 -wikinibot- WikiWikiWeb
May 24 18:17:00 -wikinibot- WikiWikiWeb :: disambiguate :
May 24 18:17:01 -wikinibot- wiki | Perl | Portland Pattern Repository | Wikipedia | Ward Cunningham | March 25 | 1995 | Honolulu International Airport | Chance RT-52 | shuttle | reduplication | Hawaiian language | CamelCase | Ward Cunningham | Ward Cunningham | Ward Cunningham | Wikipedia | San Diego, California | Larry Sanger | Bomis | Nupedia | UseModWiki | Jimmy Wales
May 24 18:17:17 -pueblo- w:collaborative writting
May 24 18:17:37 -pueblo- w:(collaborative writting)
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May 24 18:17:47 -wikinibot- collaborative
May 24 18:17:48 -wikinibot- #redirect collaboration
May 24 18:18:05 -wikinibot- collaborative writting
May 24 18:18:05 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 18:18:16 -pueblo- w:(open networks)
May 24 18:18:19 -wikinibot- open networks
May 24 18:18:19 -wikinibot- :: nada :: res de res ::
May 24 18:18:23 -chevil- w:(collaborative writing)
May 24 18:18:26 -wikinibot- collaborative writing
May 24 18:18:27 -wikinibot- collaborative writing :: disambiguate :
May 24 18:18:27 -wikinibot- editor | top-down | recursive | H2G2 | Everything2 | Ek≈üi S√∂zl√ºk | International Writing Exchange | Linux documentation project | Ilf and Petrov | Boris and Arkady Strugatsky | Kozma Prutkov | Nicolas Bourbaki | Trillium Report | Wikipedia | wiki | open content | Collaborative fiction | Massively distributed collaboration | Collaborative learning
May 24 18:18:46 -chevil- w:(Collaborative fiction)
May 24 18:18:57 -wikinibot- Collaborative fiction
May 24 18:18:57 -wikinibot- The term refers to collaboration on writing works of fiction.
May 24 18:19:06 -chevil- W:(Collaborative fiction)
May 24 18:19:22 -wikinibot- Collaborative fiction
May 24 18:19:23 -wikinibot- The term refers to collaboration on writing works of fiction.
May 24 18:19:24 -wikinibot- 'Collaborative fiction' is a form of writing by two or more authors who take it
May 24 18:19:24 -wikinibot- in turns to write a portion of the story. A collaborative author may focus
May 24 18:19:25 -wikinibot- around a specific protagonist or character 'owned' by an author in a narrative
May 24 18:19:25 -wikinibot- thread, and then passes the story on to the next writer for further additions or
May 24 18:19:26 -wikinibot- perhaps a change in focus to a protagonist 'owned' by the next author.
May 24 18:19:26 -wikinibot- Alternatively, one author might write all the portions of particular subplots,
May 24 18:19:28 -wikinibot- and other narrative threads might be shared. Which author then integrates the
May 24 18:19:28 -wikinibot- whole and smooths the work into professionally submittable form depends solely
May 24 18:19:30 -wikinibot- on agreeements between the collaborators, as does whatever percentages of
May 24 18:19:30 -wikinibot- remuneration are earned by each party. Thus, since royalty payments may outlive
May 24 18:19:32 -wikinibot- the individual authors, these matters are generally agreed to in advance, using
May 24 18:19:32 -wikinibot- written contractual terms, while the collaborators are outlining and designing
May 24 18:19:34 -wikinibot- the fictional work. An example of a collaborative writer who uses this
May 24 18:19:34 -wikinibot- technique is Eric Flint, who as a [www.ericflint.net/index.php/faqs/
May 24 18:19:36 -wikinibot- professional popular writer] has collaborated with another for well over half
May 24 18:19:36 -wikinibot- his works.
May 24 18:20:16 -pueblo- eric speaks of reseau citoyen: user-run wireless citynetwork
May 24 18:20:25 -pueblo- www.okno.be/?id=708
May 24 18:21:42 -pueblo- www.reseaucitoyen.be/wiki/index.php/Welcome
May 24 18:22:02 -annemie- is there a link between social interdisciplinarity and artistic interdisciplinarity?
May 24 18:22:50 -pueblo- I have a problem with this term disciplines anyway
May 24 18:22:52 -annemie- why aren't the people from the reseau citoyen joining us now?
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May 24 18:23:26 -pueblo- we have been commenting that actually art is a very elitistic space
May 24 18:23:56 -annemie- but art can be social too?
May 24 18:24:36 -sophie_apo33- what do you refer to when you speak about "social" interdisciplinary ?
May 24 18:24:58 -Batete- or, annemie, social, as in art for group participation?
May 24 18:25:10 -annemie- not specifically towards aesthetics
May 24 18:25:36 -Batete- dialogue difficult because of mix of paradigms
May 24 18:25:39 -annemie- that more people can collaborate through art
May 24 18:25:59 -pueblo- specially when everything is called discipline, disciplinary
May 24 18:26:16 -pueblo- participating in the paradigm of control
May 24 18:27:30 -pueblo- but what would be the miy of paradigms Batete?
May 24 18:27:30 -pueblo- mix
May 24 18:27:30 -annemie- i mean, people that usually wouldn't be attracted to go to exhibitions art art projects, but that you can involve through this new technological forms
May 24 18:27:34 -Batete- sporty arts
May 24 18:28:37 -sophie_apo33- what is interesting in art, and we see many researchers or activists etc. getting linked to art practices, is that it is in itself a transversal practice that can involve different mediums, techniques, ways of working, themes, issues, and all this through the production of something common at the end, a kind of common language. In this sense yes, art is social and an important social practice today
May 24 18:29:15 -pueblo- but I also think art works beautifying forms of control
May 24 18:29:39 -pueblo- specially in technologically powered forms of art
May 24 18:30:06 -annemie- but how far social involvment and aesthetics can go together?
May 24 18:30:27 -sophie_apo33- fascination for power is a question of "psychology" and not of art : esthetisation of politics, this how Walter Benjamin analysed Nazism... very ambigious...
May 24 18:30:34 -annemie- femke (constant) talks about les digitales, introducing housewifes to technology
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May 24 18:31:14 -pueblo- yes but do they call this art?
May 24 18:31:23 -pueblo- do they want to name it like art?
May 24 18:31:25 -annemie- christophe is talking on new forms of music and performances, involving public in different weays and swapping roles and putting elements into question
May 24 18:31:30 -Batete- remark sophie illustrates the confusion when mixing in conversation contexts and paradigms
May 24 18:32:44 -Batete- Art and social engagement: remember Kassel 2002- a high aesthetical bias and a lot of concept
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May 24 18:34:28 -Batete- beig far from brussels: christophe=deconstruction of the artist as an individual?
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May 24 18:34:39 -Batete- being that was
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May 24 18:34:47 -pueblo- hello rarita
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May 24 18:35:57 -pueblo- sorry Batete can you rephrase your question? is it a question?
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May 24 18:36:31 -Batete- it is a question. is christophe talking about the deconstruction of artist as an individual?
May 24 18:36:38 -pueblo- ok thanks
May 24 18:37:13 -pueblo- I think guy van belle was speaking of this before, I will ask cristophe
May 24 18:37:47 -Batete- ok, great.
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May 24 18:38:45 -pueblo- I will be able to do it after Patricia's intervention
May 24 18:39:41 -Batete- ok, donno if I will make it because heavy rain bashing on kinshasa
May 24 18:39:41 -sophie_apo33- I think the deconstruction of artist as an individual can't be done without a deconstruction of the notion of "artist" itself...
May 24 18:39:52 -pueblo- well when they speak of connected performance that may be possible for example
May 24 18:40:12 -pueblo- distributed networks of creation
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May 24 18:41:49 -pueblo- oh batete I hope you can wait
May 24 18:42:29 -Batete- pueblo, here you're referring to the proces and result of artistic practice. i believe sophie is referring to the notions verticalism (m√©tier) and transversalism?...
May 24 18:43:45 -pueblo- I see, like xgz was saying, to escape from the model of theater aesthetics
May 24 18:44:24 -Batete- hmm, I missed xgz
May 24 18:44:36 -pueblo- or escaping the model of the author (vertical)
May 24 18:45:18 -Batete- vertical as in specialized
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May 24 18:46:01 -pueblo- aha! I like this, so why do we speak about disciplines?
May 24 18:46:58 -sophie_apo33- it would be interesting to look at the open content licences (Art libre, Creative commons...) because redefine the concepts of work (of art) and of author, wich are the 2 main element of the art system. Maybe Femke could speak about this ?
May 24 18:47:14 -pueblo- yes i will ask
May 24 18:48:02 -Batete- In the meanwhile, can somebody tell me if the qcktm is functioning?
May 24 18:48:36 -pueblo- mainly for non linux users
May 24 18:49:22 -pueblo- yes it is working
May 24 18:50:24 -Batete- ok. unfortunately no linux besides the congo river
May 24 18:50:46 -pueblo- but it works for non-linux users
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May 24 18:51:25 -pueblo- okno.be/live
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May 24 18:51:37 -Batete- yes, iknow, but not here. probably band with
May 24 18:51:49 -rarita- i'm non linux and it works, it was down for some minutes
May 24 18:51:49 -pueblo- ah!
May 24 18:52:22 -rarita- a refresh maybe helps
May 24 18:52:41 -pueblo- where are you connecting from rarita?
May 24 18:53:01 -Batete- hyperrefreshed all afternoon -
May 24 18:53:01 -rarita- cluj/romania
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May 24 18:53:39 -pueblo- I'm glad you joined us
May 24 18:54:17 --- Batete (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #okno
May 24 18:54:43 -pueblo- yes, good that you come back Batete because I am about to ask our questions
May 24 18:54:53 -Batete- excellent.
May 24 18:56:26 -Batete- still persisting "10060: Disconnected" on the left. frustrating.
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May 24 18:56:38 -Batete- keep me posted pueblo
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May 24 18:58:03 -pueblo- I will
May 24 18:58:42 -sophie_apo33- sorry, I need to go. See you later and thanks for this discussion.
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May 24 18:59:19 -pueblo- thanks sophie will keep you posted too
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May 24 19:05:50 -u-sun_- hopefully th